Old Zhu was unhappy and didn't understand. "Princes and dukes are also of high rank. Which of the civil and military officials or meritorious nobles is as noble as a prince or duke?"

That's not entirely wrong; a title like Duke is arguably the highest, but that's only from the perspective of 'outsiders'. Princes and dukes are indeed higher titles than Duke.

Even Xu Da, who was posthumously granted the title of Prince of Zhongshan, was theoretically only at the level of a 'county prince', which actually explains a lot.

Looking at Old Zhu, Zhu Xiong Ying continued, "Grandfather, it is proper for the officials to kowtow when bestowing titles of nobility. But if, outside the court, the officials demand luggage from all members of the imperial clan, isn't that going a bit too far?"

This left Old Zhu bewildered. He was astonished. "Ying'er, what do you mean? We are the imperial family, and all the officials are our subjects! Shouldn't they bow and kowtow when they see members of the imperial family?"

If Zhu Yuanzhang really said that, it would certainly make perfect sense. After all, being a descendant of Zhu Yuanzhang naturally placed him above others in the Ming Dynasty, and it was only natural that officials would bow to him.

Zhu Xiong Ying disagreed, arguing that, "Grandfather, shouldn't civil and military officials below the third rank pay their respects to a prince? High-ranking officials should also be treated with respect. This prince doesn't concern himself with the affairs of his fiefdom, yet when officials go to him, they first kowtow, which immediately diminishes their confidence."

Now it was Old Zhu's turn to fall silent. He had naturally considered these things and could understand Zhu Xiong Ying's concerns.

When Zhu Yuanzhang enfeoffed his sons, his intention was for the imperial family to protect the court. However, to prevent the princes from becoming too powerful, Zhu Yuanzhang also forbade them from interfering in local affairs within their fiefdoms. In principle, princes were not qualified to meddle in local government affairs and had no authority over local officials.

Over the years, Zhu Yuanzhang had come to realize that some of his sons were not particularly well-behaved in their fiefdoms. Some of his descendants did indeed run rampant and lawless in their fiefdoms, and the local officials simply dared not interfere.

If some of the descendants become unruly and act arrogantly towards officials, it could indeed be a troublesome matter. Some high-ranking officials even have to kneel and bow before princes, as if they have suddenly lost their confidence.

“Then let’s make it a fifth rank, and we can reduce it a bit more.” Old Zhu was silent for a moment, then held Little Zhu and said, “When we first founded the dynasty, we didn’t expect to have so many offspring. Back then, many things were indeed not as easy to handle as they are now.”

There is absolutely no problem with saying that. It is perfectly normal that many things were not considered thoroughly when the country was first established.

Don't say that Zhu Yuanzhang came from a peasant family and only served as a general for a few years. Even those aristocratic families couldn't possibly handle all aspects of affairs perfectly at the very beginning of a dynasty; that's highly unrealistic and practically impossible.

Moreover, nearly thirty years have passed since the founding of the People's Republic of China, and Zhu De has witnessed many changes. Many things have indeed not gone as he initially expected, which naturally means that Zhu De also knows that he may need to make some changes.

It seems that everyone has reached a tacit consensus on this matter, which is definitely a good thing.

In fact, Zhu Xiong Ying understood that Old Zhu didn't particularly care about things like kneeling and bowing. Because Old Zhu was a pragmatist, whether or not his officials kowtowed to the prince wasn't a significant matter to him.

In truth, it was more practical matters that Zhu Yuanzhang valued, such as the treatment of princes. Those were the things that Zhu Yuanzhang truly cared about, and in his view, those matters were not things that could be discussed and decided in a few words.

Zhu Xiong Ying felt fairly satisfied; it seemed that the progress in 'reducing the king's power' was going relatively smoothly.

The concept of righteousness still held considerable sway in this era, and kneeling was a privilege for many princes. However, it now appears that Zhu Xiong Ying has begun to strip some princes of their privileges.

Whether this matter is good or bad, or to what extent Zhu Xiong Ying will actually go, we'll have to wait and see!