"Has the interest rate always been like this?" Zhao Jiu looked calm and spoke in a gentle voice.
"Of course not." The grease on Fahe's face was shining more and more conspicuous, but he didn't dare to hide anything. "It is said that a long time ago, the interest rate was 50%, but after Wang Xianggong established the Qingmiao Law, monks, Taoists, merchants and laymen in Henan Province all changed the rules and became 30%..."
"Because the Green Seedling Law stipulates that the upper limit of the green seedling loan interest rate is 30%?"
“Yes… yes!”
"And then?" Zhao Jiu did not pursue the malicious intent of the reactionary forces in opposing the government. He just pretended to be casual and continued to ask.
"Then... after the Green Seedling Law was abolished, it gradually returned to 40%." Fahe said carefully. "In the chaos a few years ago, before Prime Minister Xu took charge of the military farming in Henan, it once increased to 50% in some places because seeds were scarce and expensive. Later, after Prime Minister Xu took control, it gradually returned to 40%."
"You're still talking about the market economy." Zhao Jiu laughed out loud, but then sighed. "But lending is really the best business in the world that makes money the fastest. 40% of the price is fair, and 30% is the good government of the court... No wonder you all became rich, and no wonder Wang Shuwang's new law failed so quickly, but it still raised so much money for the court to use for military operations."
Fahe tried to answer, "Sir, this is unavoidable...it is indeed what the people need."
"I know." Zhao Jiu shook his head and replied. "Even if this dynasty is destroyed and the emperor is gone, this usury business is inevitable. But Fahe, do you think Guanzi's profit comes from one hole, right?"
"Your Majesty." Fa Heqing knew that the most critical moment had come, but he mustered up the courage to confront him. "I dare not speak of the ancient saints, but I dare to guarantee that the people of Dengfeng have always been happy with the Qingmiao loan of our Shaolin Temple... When the people are poor and have no way out, the rich contribute money to help them and collect interest in return. Isn't this helping the poor and the rich? Isn't it a good thing?"
It was rare for Fahe to come to the fore, but once his idea of "helping the rich and the poor" came out, it immediately gained the support of many people. For a while, there was a lot of discussion in the hall, and many nobles, monks and Taoists took the opportunity to speak.
Now, due to the extra performance of several unplanned ministers, the plot development of this "Legend of White Snake" has already exceeded expectations. However, neither Zhao Jiu nor the several ministers who have been silent for a long time have made any remarks or expressions that are too extraordinary. Instead, they have some sighs on their faces... The reason is very simple. They have discussed many things repeatedly in the past half month.
Today's remarks, whether fierce, prudent, righteous or shameless, did not surpass the detailed discussions before between the emperor and the ministers!
What's ridiculous is that they know very well that whether it's 'profit from one source', 'practice is the standard', or Fahe's shameless theory that usury is 'helping the rich and the poor', they all appeared in their discussion... In other words, even at the highest level, there are differences, and every theory seems to be correct, at least within a certain range!
It’s really true.
The logic of the emperor and his ministers in discussing this matter was as follows:
The first priority of the country, after all the discussions, is to replenish the finances;
And abundant finances will open up new sources of income;
If you open up new ways to make money, you can only profit from the property owners;
If you want to profit from the property owners, you should not take it by force, let alone break the law. That would be a real destruction of the foundation. Instead, you should use legal and reasonable means to seize the biggest, quickest, but also the most shameless means of economic income from the property owners, and adopt the basic concept of profit from one hole as a national policy, so that the state can make this money;
This business, or the means of accumulating wealth, can only be usury. If we want to expand our finances quickly and massively, we should let the state replace these wealthy people in occupying the usury market.
When it came to this point, Zhao Jiu and several ministers immediately realized...that these were the same routines that had been used since ancient times, and Wang Anshi had thought of them decades earlier than them.
As a result, the discussion immediately turned into a discussion of the Qingmiao Law.
However, as I said before, the Qingmiao Law, as the core of Wang Anshi's reform, is not that simple... Some people, namely Emperor Zhao at the beginning, and Zhang Jun, like Chen Kangbo in front of him, insisted that the failure of the Qingmiao Law touched the core interests of the property owners and led to an alliance between the property owners and the old party, so the failure was a purely political failure.
It may not be impossible to implement it now.
At the same time, almost every experienced and pragmatic official was firmly opposed to this... Lu Haowen, Zhao Ding, Liu Ji, Li Guang, and even Chen Gui, whose current responsibilities are more in military affairs but who has rich experience in local governance, all expressed their attitude firmly and clearly, that is, the failure of the "Qingmiao Law" was directly related to the law itself.
The Qingmiao Law itself is not acceptable.
What's the problem?
The truth became clearer and clearer. After arguing many times and taking many notes, Zhao Jiu had already figured out the key point and gradually changed his attitude. He then reached a general consensus with several ministers, or rather, they convinced each other - the problem actually lay in the bureaucratic system.
The relationship between the bureaucratic system and the failure of the Qingmiao Law can be analyzed from two perspectives.
First of all, the imperial power did not extend to the countryside. As an extension of imperial power, if the bureaucratic system that enforced the law really abided by the law, it would not be able to confront the bourgeoisie in the countryside. The common people also trusted and obeyed these temples and landlords more. Even in the market, it was difficult for grassroots officials to compete with wealthy merchants who had been operating for many years.
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